Episode 1: POLY-B and KITEC PLUMBING: What You Should Know
Jennifer Foley Realtor (00:01):
Are you looking to buy a home built in the eighties, nineties or early two thousands? Well, that's what we're talking about today. Some of the plumbing that may, uh, be something that you wanna look for in homes built in that timeframe. Absolutely. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so FA I'm gonna let you start because you're gonna talk to us about Paul B, which is very popular in the Western part of Canada. You're in BC. Yep. That's right. And we're gonna cover a little bit about, um, contact plumbing as well, which was used more here in Ontario. Um, so yeah, I'm gonna let you get started. What is this poly B you were mentioning to me, it looks like a gray plastic
Faeine Grant (00:39):
Pipe. Exactly. And it's in important because a lot of, uh, insurance companies they're going, that's gonna be one of the first things that they ask you is what type of plumbing do you have? So the poly be piping is it's almost, it looks like a gray bendable pipe. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, it's almost like a tube half, like about an inch in diameter. And it usually comes in and out of your, um, your walls where the plumbing is. So underneath the sink, around your toilet, hot water heater, or just water heater, those types of places. So that's generally gonna be where you would spot it if your home does have it.
Jennifer Foley Realtor (01:11):
So the thing about this type of plumbing too, is because it, um, it will become an insurance issue because they've had problems with it leaking. So again, we're not trying to cause alarms here, but it is some thing to be mindful of that. Um,
Faeine Grant (01:25):
<laugh> we are realtor moms aren't we
Jennifer Foley Realtor (01:30):
<laugh>, I just saw the kid run in the background there. First kid
Faeine Grant (01:34):
Place. He went by. Oh yeah, yeah. Realtor moms. It's uh, here we go. <laugh>
Jennifer Foley Realtor (01:41):
Um, yeah, so, um, these are some of the things that, um, you know, you're gonna wanna look out for, have a home inspection, home inspection would look for this, but certainly I know for myself when I'm going through a home mm-hmm, <affirmative> the buyer. Um, this would be something I'm try to be a little mindful of, um, looking for, you know, signs of where I can see some plumbing to see what kind of plumbing now. Certainly we can't see everything exactly behind the walls. Um, but yeah, I mean, it becomes an issue for insurance companies and here in Ontario, the Kaitech plumbing is more of a blue and orange color. So there have been times where I have seen this type of plumbing and, you know, get a little concerned and I will reach out to one of my plumber and see what their thoughts are on that. Right. Um, sometimes you can bring a plumber in, um, before you put an offer in to have a look at a property. Yep. You certainly have a home inspection to see if, um, if there's any poly B or any of this contact plumbing. So really now you were saying about probably be that it's a little earlier than the Chi tech. So
Faeine Grant (02:47):
It is. Yeah, so they, I mean, really, they first introduced it back in like 1970 in the late seventies, but it didn't really take on and become popular until probably like the, I wanna say late eighties, right up until about 1998. So I would say most homes, um, not just single family detached, but also townhouses and apartment style homes. Um, that was a really popular type of piping to use. So, um, you know, this
Jennifer Foley Realtor (03:15):
Was a cheaper option, right. To the copper and that it was,
Faeine Grant (03:17):
Yeah. So copper worked really, really well, but as the price of copper became more expensive, most builders, they wanted to find something that was a little more, a easier to install and like poly B piping is like rubber, right? Like it's very, very easy to, to put into small confined spaces and it's much cheaper as well, so cheaper, easier to install. I mean, why wouldn't you wanna put it in there. Right. But, um, you know, they're like span.
Jennifer Foley Realtor (03:45):
Hmm. Not knowing future,
Faeine Grant (03:47):
Not knowing. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so what happened is, is that, um, it wasn't able to withstand the, the temperature changes and, um, you know, just chemicals that are in our water system, et cetera. Um, there, yeah. If I, that the lifespan is quite a bit quicker than what they anticipated lasting only about 10 to 15 years. So yeah. Um, not to say that it O like, it will only last 10 to 15 years, but it's just, that's the amount of time where they started to notice that, okay, this is, you know, a bit of a problem. So then they went to just, you know, insurance companies wanted you to just change the fittings to, um, uh, I think it was copper fittings that they wanted, uh, instead of plastic mm-hmm <affirmative>. But, um, but now more and more I'm finding that insurance companies are getting a little bit stickier when it comes to ensuring properties with poly B piping. So it definitely is something to be mindful of.
Jennifer Foley Realtor (04:38):
Yeah. And I think in Ontario here for the Kay tech plumbing, um, you know, you're looking at timeframe anywhere from, uh, the mid nineties to, uh, mid two thousands. Right. So, um, there's a timeframe there, and you can certainly, there's lots of information online about this type of plumbing, but, uh, any houses that were sort of built anywhere from 1995 to 2000 and is always something that we kind of take some concern, and again, it's an orange and a blue pipe and there's copper fittings in between. Um, and again, if there's ever any concern, we always consult with a professional in that field. Right. Rather than absolutely.
Faeine Grant (05:17):
Jennifer Foley Realtor (05:19):
So, um, yeah, and some of the resources I found said that, uh, it says, look at the electrical panels inside and out for a bright yellow or Neo colored sticker stating that Kaitech was used in the home that I didn't know, um, on that. Right. Um, mm-hmm, <affirmative> so I'm not sure if that applies here in Ontario, this, uh, resources, uh, so else, but, uh, yeah, so, and typically too, um, most Kaitech plumbing also, uh, has a stamp on it. Right. So that's another thing, um, to look at. So if you see a stamp on it, take a picture of it, and then you can consult with a plumber on that. Right. And, uh, the best place to look for the kayak is right near the hot water tank and the mechanical room where, uh, pipe connects or exits the wall. Right. That's typically where you're gonna see it. It's not gonna be covered in drywall. Um, and like you said, look under kitchen sinks, bathroom vanities, um, the pipe, or, um, fittings, exit the wall, right. Those are places that you're gonna wanna be looking for that. So again, if you suspect it, uh, take a picture of it and, uh, have a home inspection and, or consult with a plumber. Absolutely.
Faeine Grant (06:31):
And also if you see that there's a stamp on there, you can always take a picture of it and, um, and look up online as well. It, and you can see, you know, maybe, um, you can check out some information on the manufacturer and that will kind of help guide where it is that you wanna go as far as your research goes. So, yeah, definitely. Anyways <laugh>
Jennifer Foley Realtor (06:48):
So we hope that you found this information valuable and helpful, and if you have any questions, please post them below. Um, we'd be happy to, uh, try to help you out or connect you with any resources and, uh, yeah. Subscribe if you found this video helpful.
Faeine Grant (07:04):
Thanks so much. You guys see you next Friday.
Episode 2: Knob and Tube Wiring
Jernnifer Foley Realtor: (00:01)
Are you looking to buy a home built pre 1950s, you'll need to consider the type of wiring that the home has. For instance, it could be copper, it could be aluminum, or it could be no tube. So that's what we're talking about today. Noob and tube wiring that may be found in older homes built pre 1950s. So any homes built in the early 19 hundreds, uh, to 1940s, um, if it hasn't been completely, completely rewired, then this is something that you're gonna wanna watch.
Faeine Grant: (00:32)
Absolutely. Yep. Um, you know, and it's funny because they were saying that some, uh, where, when I was doing my research on this, um, you know, also having sold a new Westminster when I first started selling real estate, every house, so many houses, not every house, but so many houses were heritage and people really love that heritage style home mm-hmm and then you go into the basement and if it hasn't been completely redone, like you said, with ele, uh, with new electrical, sometimes you can still see the, the old knob and two wiring hanging, uh, between the joists and they just use it as a close line.
Jernnifer Foley Realtor: (01:06)
Yeah. Well, some of the things about, um, this knob and tube wiring, and this is stuff like in, in the number of years that I've been selling real estate and it's not so common now that we see knob and tube, um, and you know, honestly, some people don't even recognize what it is. And part of the reason that they don't recognize what it is is because there's not very many homes that have it left, but what buyers need to be aware of when they're looking at an older home, and I always say this old house, old problems, right. So, you know, you're buying an old house. So with that, you have to realize that there are going to be things and even, um, and this is, I feel real, really, really strongly about home inspection on an older home. Absolutely. And, and the reason is, is that they can find a lot of these things. So even though we can look in the basement, we can see that, um, there's no visible lines or, you know, there, we may not even see them. All right. Keeping
Faeine Grant: (02:00)
Holes that the average person could see and say, oh, okay, Hey, there's a deficiency, but inspectors they're trained and they're highly skilled so that they can see problems that, you know, the regular, regular quote, unquote person wouldn't be able to spot necessarily. They could look at it and not even know it's a problem.
Jernnifer Foley Realtor: (02:17)
That's right. And I always tell people, you know what I mean, it could be running up the walls, it could be running across the attic. Right? Yeah. Um, there's so many different places. Like people can see a new panel on the, um, on, on the property and, you know, see some newer wiring, this kind of stuff. And there'll still be remnants. And actually, I just received a call recently from somebody, uh, who was discussing with me about a line of, uh, knob and tube that was found in their house. Yeah. And they didn't have a home inspection, you know, in this highly competitive market. It's, it's something that a lot of buyers are opting out on. Of course. And, um, yeah. So anyhow, so you know, those people are gonna get an electrician in, they're gonna have to see what the cost is around that. Um, and, and how many, how much is there, right. I mean, so some of the things that buyers have to be aware of is, you know, if they're willing to, um, undertake the expense, but I think buyers need to have some education up front, right. To typically knob and tube is an older wiring, um, that, uh, basically it doesn't meet the demands of today's electrical needs. Right. Essentially
Faeine Grant: (03:29)
That's right. Yeah. So like basically it, it doesn't support, it doesn't have a ground wire, right. So modern electric, modern electric electricity, and, um, build a and codes. Everything is built in such a way that it has a ground wire and, um, the black and white wires and the ground wires, they're all packaged together. And also it prevents shock obviously with the, having the ground wire there. So the thing is with the knob and two wiring is that it's, it has the, the black and the white separate it, uh, with no ground. So if it comes anywhere near water, then that's a huge problem because it shocks very, very quickly. Um, and then also we can also heat up. So if it touches something else, then now you have a risk of fire. Um, also it can't support.
Jernnifer Foley Realtor: (04:18)
I wanna add that because home has no been to wiring. It doesn't mean that the house is an imminent danger of burning
Faeine Grant: (04:25)
Percent. Absolutely. Cause you could still have it and it's just not active
Jernnifer Foley Realtor: (04:29)
That's. Right. But it can be, um, you know, an issue with home insurance. I mean, that's the biggest concern, biggest concern. Yeah,
Faeine Grant: (04:40)
Sure. For sure. And I think home insurance companies have been, um, I think enforcing the, the, the upgrades and the elimination of, of noob and two wiring for, for a number of years now. Cause I remember close to 10 years ago when I was in new west. I mean, I remember that was, uh, an insurance topic of conversation. That was pretty top of mind now, again, like you said, we're not seeing it as much. Cause I think so many people over the last 10 years have upgraded their electrical, you know, for fire safety reasons as well. But um, but every once in a while, you know, you definitely, like you said, you do see it. And um, yeah. Best thing to know is if it's active or like it it's live. Yeah. Or if it's been decommissioned and it's just, nobody's bothered to take it out of the house yet.
Jernnifer Foley Realtor: (05:26)
And that's a great point because sometimes there will be still some of the wiring left in, but it's not connected for sure. It's, it's been disconnected. But again, the only way you're gonna know that is, um, either having a home inspection or, um, having electrician come in and doing a thorough inspection top to bottom. Right. So, so let's, um, get into if somebody finds it, you know, mm-hmm, , I mean, we've got a picture up here of what it looks like. Yep. Right. So just to give people an idea of what it looks like, mm-hmm, , um, you know, the cost of replacing no tube can vary depending on the size, the overall condition, age of the property, access to the wiring, cuz sometimes you may have to get it out of the walls. So the may have to cut through the walls and then you're getting into replacing drywall.
Jernnifer Foley Realtor: (06:16)
Um, you know, so it, it's fast to consult with a licensed electrician to get an accurate estimation of what you can expect for a project like this. Um, and like we said, some of the ways to tell if it has not been to you are gonna look in areas, um, you know, that are, are visible to us. I mean, you can't really take light switches off, but that's a common place up in the attic. Again, you can't on visual inspections, be looking for that, but basements, you know, you can look for any of these white ceramic knobs, but again, they have to be connected
Faeine Grant: (06:51)
For sure. Yeah. And don't, don't check them yourself. I mean, this is a very, you know, it's a very, it could be potentially, uh, very dangerous. So I mean, if it's, if it's decommissioned and it's not live, then use them as clothes hangers. That's fine. But definitely get a professional to come and check it. Um, don't DIY this, um, definitely for safety reasons and for fire hazards and for other, um, precautions, bring somebody in yeah.
Jernnifer Foley Realtor: (07:17)
Great point. And uh, sometimes the insurance companies too, you have to check with your individual insurer, what their rules are. Um, but some of them will, um, continue to ensure for a period of time. Some of them won't, um, you know, it all comes down to, at the end of the day, what the cost will be for ensuring the property. So definitely insurance is something you wanna look into. If you're are already a homeowner with something like this, then you're gonna wanna get an electrician in, um, find out about remediation of this. And then, you know, you're gonna have to talk to your insurance company about, about it.
Faeine Grant: (07:51)
Yep. And if you do get like, if you're thinking of selling as well, and you have some knob and tube wiring, but it has been decommissioned, get the electrician to, to give you a letter and say, there's no live knob and tube, like get a somebody certified and just get something in writing so that you have something that you can show to the prospective buyer and just say, Hey, you know, I've done my due diligence. I'm making a declaration that a professional has come in here and, you know, given, given my property and assessment
Jernnifer Foley Realtor: (08:19)
Pre um, list inspection,
Faeine Grant: (08:22)
Pre list inspection. Absolutely. That's such a great idea. Yep.
Jernnifer Foley Realtor: (08:25)
We here in Ontario, uh, we have the electrical safety authority that you can pay for them to come in. They'll go through, check out all your wiring and uh, and give you a certificate stating that the, the wiring is safe. So would be after remediation. I mean, electrician, if you're changing it out is gonna apply to the electrical safety authority anyways, mm-hmm but just some, some great tips and some great points. So, uh, poster comments below, uh, we've got some more, uh, videos coming up and we're gonna be about, uh, copper versus aluminum in our next video. So video
Faeine Grant: (09:06)
You next Friday.
Episode 3: Aluminum Wiring & The Risks
Jennifer Foley Realtor (00:02):
So, you know, somebody's thinking about buying a house that's built in the seventies and maybe asking themselves what are some of the things that they have to be concerned about with a house built in this era? So, aluminum wiring is one of those things that, uh, as a realtor, we, we look for those things and, uh, while we can't see behind walls and we can't see inside the panel, but, you know, it's something that, it's something that we do suspect, right. That if it is, um, built in the seventies, that this is, uh, our little realtor antennas go up, that we need to that's right's right. Educate that there's a possibility there could be some, some aluminum wiring. And one of the big concerns too, is when aluminum wiring is connected to copper, right? So typically in hoses built in that era, you'll find main floor and second floor usually still have the original wiring, which would be copper or sorry, aluminum. And then it's the basement. That's a newer, uh, that you're gonna usually see probably, uh, copper. Right. And I say probably only because again, we're speculating and typically we would have a home inspector quote, inspect all these things and what a buyer needs to know is what we're gonna talk about today. That's
Faeine Grant (01:15):
Jennifer Foley Realtor (01:17):
It varies. Cause, uh, I'm here in the province of Ontario and fame is in beef. See, so rules are a little bit different in terms of, uh, what's required from each of these provinces. Um, so I mean that, uh, you talk a little bit FA uh, what, how would you educate your buyer?
Faeine Grant (01:38):
Yeah, well, I think, um, you know, what you said with our, you know, our, our realtor and kind of, kind of go out like there's certain key keywords, um, and certain eras where, um, you know, if a house is built in X particular era era, um, then, you know, like automatically I'm thinking, okay, so the typical homes built in this demographic or built in this decade, um, you know, this is something that we typically see. Right. And so, yeah, if you're looking at seven, uh, definitely one of the main components in there, um, is, is the electrical and, and, you know, having the aluminum versus, um, copper wiring. Now, I think, you know, you can, you can certainly ask questions, you know, it has it been updated and whatnot, but there's no way to know for sure. Um, because to, to the untrained eye, I mean, I'm not an like by any means. And so to the untrained eyes, sometimes it's really difficult to tell. I mean, you open up the, um, the electrical panel and you see all these wires coming in out and, uh, you know, and then there's sometimes there's aluminum wiring with, um, copper wiring and they're just pig tailed together. Or they're like, they're, they're the, the new connectors
Jennifer Foley Realtor (02:44):
You're if you're looking at an outlet, right. But we're not allowed to take outlets off here. Um, you know,
Faeine Grant (02:49):
No, but if you open the electrical panel, like in the garage, or, you know, like the big metal electrical panel that you can open up.
Jennifer Foley Realtor (02:56):
Yeah. But unless they actually take the panel off, they can't see what the wire is going. Right. Is that what you're referencing? Yeah.
Faeine Grant (03:04):
Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. You can't. Yeah. You, you, I mean, certain home inspectors do, but exactly. Right. So, I mean, that's where you need to, you know, my point is, is that you have to have a, a, an electrician or an home inspector come and take a look and really be able to tell you got,
Jennifer Foley Realtor (03:18):
What would you, what, what are the rules like in, um, what are the concerns there in BC around aluminum wiring? So how would you educate your buyer if, if the possibility is there that it's there, or if on a home inspection, it did show up, what would you, what what's.
Faeine Grant (03:35):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, um, I mean, you, you know, market conditions for sure. Um, you know, whether you go back and renegotiate, that's definitely something that, you know, in a slower market, maybe that could be an option. So
Jennifer Foley Realtor (03:48):
Why would, why would we need to renegotiate?
Faeine Grant (03:51):
Well, because I'd be concerned about fires fires. That's what, that's, what it comes down to. Right. Old electrical, um, increases the risk of fires. And from my understanding it's that the wires that heat up and then that they can spark back and forth. And then obviously, um, you know, that's where fires can happen. So a fire hazard and the safety, um, of, you know, your home and your family, um, that's what I would be primarily concerned about. So if there is any question about it and mean, you know, I think that I would tell the buyer, look, this is something that, um, you know, I personally would be concerned about, about having, you know, a fi having it as a fire hazard. Um, you know, if you're prepared to take that, you know, that upgrade on, I mean, depending on the buyer and what they're willing to do and willing not what they're not willing to do. Um, you know, sometimes I would just say, you know, what, as soon as you move in, have your, have an electrical electrician come in, just take a look and give an assessment, um, and, uh, you know, essentially make it safe, do what you need to do in order to make it safe and then provide you with some options. So
Jennifer Foley Realtor (04:54):
I think you're, I think you're talking about when, um, aluminum is connected to copper, right? Fire hazards.
Faeine Grant (05:01):
Jennifer Foley Realtor (05:01):
If it's not done correctly. Cause I don't think we wanna put it out there. That aluminum wiring is, is unsafe, right?
Faeine Grant (05:09):
No, no. It's when they have the connections of the two. Yeah. But we see that
Jennifer Foley Realtor (05:12):
You're talking about yeah. Aluminum to copper connections, those two different wires that the two metals, they don't like each other. So they end up, um, um, you know, causing a hazard. Right. So we don't have alarm people here. Cause again, we're not electricians and we're not totally,
Jennifer Foley Realtor (05:31):
Um, you know, so here in Ontario we have an electrical safety authority that actually goes out. Um, and with COVID, I think they've made a few changes around that. I don't wanna say what those are, but I'm just gonna stick to the standard, which the electrical safety authority would inspect. Um, the wiring, the connection between copper and aluminum, make sure it was done correctly. Uh, there's a certain type of pace and, uh, certain outlets that you have to buy that specifically meet and match with aluminum wiring. So you can't just go out and buy a, a copper, uh, fitted electrical outlet to go on aluminum wiring. So there's lots of, um, things like that. Same with lights, right? You're changing out lights. So those kinds of things are looked at, um, the electrical safety authority will go through the house, they'll look at everything and if everything is up to par, then they will give it a certificate of safety. So, so
Faeine Grant (06:29):
On that note though, so is that for every home purchase or insurance or just with taking out a permit, cuz we definitely need to have a, a permit for doing any changes with the electric, with, with uh, electricity or, or anything of that nature. Um,
Jennifer Foley Realtor (06:43):
Yeah. So how it works is that it's not a requirement of the seller to do this. Um, it would be something that's negotiated between buyer and seller, but really who's requiring this electrical safety authority, uh, to get or during times of COVID right now, it is, uh, I think you'd have to double check this with your insurance company. Um, and it varies from insurer to insurer, but uh, they're looking at having electricians because of the lack of manpower to come out in service during COVID right. So, but anyhow, it's gonna be up to the insurance company. That's gonna direct you on what to do. So if I have a buyer who's looking at a house like this, I'm gonna say, contact your insurance company, see what they require, let them know that there's aluminum, wiring, aluminum and copper. If that's the case, you know, after you have your home inspection and the home inspector verifies that, um, then see what their requirements are.
Jennifer Foley Realtor (07:39):
If they say that, you know, we want BSA or we want an electrician to quote and assess it, uh, make sure that it's safe and give you some sort of report, then they would take it back to the insurance company. And then the insurance company would, um, you know, then ensure it, if a buyer buys a home, some insurance companies, um, give you a grace period, right? Yes. Clothes on the house, you can take possession, but they require that to be done within a certain period of time or they will, um, yank the insurance. So you need to talk to your insurance and if your insurance won't do it, then shop around, talk to different insurance brokers and, and see what their requirements are. There's always somebody out there who will ensure it. It's always at what price.
Faeine Grant (08:26):
Exactly. And I think at the end of the day, the, the, the, the moral of the story between, you know, the connection, um, the commonality between both BC and Ontario, is that really what it does come down to is all about the insurance and what they will cover, what they won't cover. And I think that that's, you know, at the end of the day, that's the most important thing as well, because you wanna make sure that not only are you, you know, safe for sure. Um, but if anything were to ever happen, you definitely wanna make sure that, uh, you're gonna have that proper coverage.
Jennifer Foley Realtor (08:53):
That's right. So any other questions, thanks for watching. And, uh, do you have any other inquiries or topics of interest? Let us know.
Faeine Grant (09:05):
Jennifer Foley Realtor (09:05):
See you in thes
Faeine Grant (09:08):
Episode 4: Stucco Exteriors
Jennifer Foley Realtor (00:02):
All right. So today we are it's February 18th, 2022, and we are on episode
Faeine Grant (00:09):
18th already. Oh my gosh.
Jennifer Foley Realtor (00:11):
I know. Right. And we are on episode four, season two of the Jen and Fe show. And today FA is going to teach us and educate us on stucco exteriors, cuz I know very little about it. Um, other than I've seen a few homes with it. And so here in Durham region, we don't have a lot of that. I mean, but in Toronto we're seeing more of that. So Hey, I I'm gonna learn from you today.
Faeine Grant (00:37):
Absolutely. So just to kind give a bit of a background, um, in the early nineties, um, it actually was the building code to have a complete what they call it, California stucco. Right? So I'm talking about primarily larger condominium buildings, um, row homes or townhouse buildings. That was the code was to use this California style stucco. Um, it was popular in the states. And then of course, as you know, people started thinking that this was a, you know, kind of a miracle product. It started kinda traveling upward traveling north to where we are. But of course, as everybody knows living in BC we're, I mean we're basically in a rainforest.
Jennifer Foley Realtor (01:21):
Faeine Grant (01:22):
Um, you know, so in comparison to California, which is more desert-like, um, they don't get nearly enough as much rain as we do here,
Jennifer Foley Realtor (01:32):
So yeah. So stucco must be falling off.
Faeine Grant (01:34):
Oh my gosh. Right. Is it bingo? Yeah. So what was happening? So I know, right. Like
Jennifer Foley Realtor (01:43):
Not like water,
Faeine Grant (01:44):
Nineties, there's a lot of funny things that came outta the nineties with, uh, regards to the building codes and uh, construction, but early 1990s buildings, um, typically they have like the salmon pink or like the cream color exterior. And um, it kind of looks like, um, not concrete, but almost like a painted. Um, and uh, and basically it it's a porous material. So what was happening is that all of the rain was falling onto the exterior of the buildings and then the moisture was getting trapped underneath and then the mold was starting to grow from the inside out.
Jennifer Foley Realtor (02:22):
Faeine Grant (02:23):
Horrible. So yeah, I mean for, not only the health reasons, but from the financing standpoint, um, as we got into the mid nineties, um, and early two thousands while what was happening was all of these condominium and, um, town, home buildings were needed. Basically what they had to do was pull off all of the cladding, take out all of the, um, all of the mold, everything that's in, like all of the, the, the nasty stuff. And they had to put, what's called a rain screen. Do you guys have rain screen technology there?
Jennifer Foley Realtor (02:56):
I don't know. I don't, I I'm not familiar with what that is. So no.
Faeine Grant (03:01):
So basically what that is, it's almost like it's probably about two, like a two inch gap between the actual inside of the building and then the shell. So the shell is kind of like a rain screen. So what that does, it allows the, so if this is the side of the building, it, the rain to come onto the building and then it will have metal flashing along each level. And so the metal flashing will port outwards so that it doesn't stick and, uh, soak into the inside of the building.
Jennifer Foley Realtor (03:33):
OK. So it doesn't damage interior and get in behind it,
Faeine Grant (03:36):
It creates, it creates a shell so that the building can, and it also deflects the water away from what seeps inside. So
Jennifer Foley Realtor (03:45):
Does this become an insurance issue for people these types of home or what, what are some of the issues that, uh, absolutely besides the mold issue, um, what other sort of things, as from a realtor's perspective as a buyer, what would you educate me on?
Faeine Grant (03:59):
So the first thing, if I, if I drive up to a building and I see, and I don't see those metal flashings that are going to be along every, um, level in the building right away, I know, okay, this is a stucco exterior building built in the nineties. So that automatically that, you know, triggers a red flag in the back of my mind. And then if I don't see that metal flash, well, then it's pretty darn safe to assume that it has not yet been rain screened now to educate a buyer about that. What that means is that, I mean, it's pretty, it's just a matter of time as to when it needs to be rain screened, not if, but when, cause everything is basically,
Jennifer Foley Realtor (04:37):
Obviously they're gonna have, they're gonna have a home inspection and the home inspector's gonna go through all of that stuff.
Faeine Grant (04:43):
Jennifer Foley Realtor (04:43):
So that would be something that you would, um, definitely educate your buyers on, have a home inspection for sure. And call their insurance company.
Faeine Grant (04:52):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And also just to, to know that it's a really big expense, if it does need to be rain screened, there was
Jennifer Foley Realtor (05:00):
So is that, is that reflective in the price, in the offer price at all? Or does that matter to buyers in this market?
Faeine Grant (05:07):
Yeah. You know what, it's still, it still reflects. So the price points of these types of buildings are definitely gonna be, um, a lower price point. Um, just to begin with just, um, you know, and I think also too, it's really about the, the realtor that's gonna educate their buyers about the reality of what it could happen. If you are buying a stucco building that has not been,
Jennifer Foley Realtor (05:27):
Do you have contractors there that specialize in this kind of work to get, uh, these repairs done or can, is it something that can be removed? Do you know?
Faeine Grant (05:36):
Yeah. Yep. It is something that can be removed. It's just, it's a really big expense. Like I've seen, um, you know, $50,000 a person, um, like they're really, really, it's an extensive project. So sometimes you'll see the, all these big buildings full, like under tarps and you know, all of the, the under construction and whatnot. And uh, I mean, once it's been done the building on the outside looks amazing, but, uh, but it's, it's a lot of work to be able to do that. Cause you usually also have to do all of the windows as well because
Jennifer Foley Realtor (06:05):
All of the water, what do you mean? Like replace them? Yeah. Are they typically wood windows then
Faeine Grant (06:11):
They're aluminum. Yeah. So they're
Jennifer Foley Realtor (06:13):
But the windows get damaged at the same time.
Faeine Grant (06:15):
Yeah. Yeah. So they would all, they would usually replace them at the same time because it's an easier job to do them both at one time RA like both at the same time, rather than having to do the stucco once and then removing them and then damaging the stucco. So it, it does make more sense financially in the long run to be able to do the windows as well. And usually they're replaced with, um, the, uh, double pane vinyl windows.
Jennifer Foley Realtor (06:40):
All right. Well, good to know. So anybody looking at homes like this have to be concerned about insurance, having it inspected to make sure there's no other major problems with it. Yeah. Uh, in terms of, uh, damage to the actual construction of the home. Right. Uh, yeah. So, all right. Well that's great information. If anybody has any comments, questions, post them in the comments below.
Faeine Grant (07:05):
Thanks guys. We'll see you next week.
Episode 5: Underground Oil Storage Tanks
Faeine Grant (01:10):
Jennifer Foley Realtor (01:11):
Take a picture of what I was seeing that maybe a concern in sending it to one of my home inspectors on behalf of my, my buyer, client, just to
Speaker 2 (01:20):
See, like, what would that be like if you see something, what, like, what would you see that would sort of trigger that red flag?
Jennifer Foley Realtor (01:26):
Um, you know, sometimes like sometimes, uh, when I've shown homes, there's like these pipes that are coming outta the ground or, um, you know, you'll see the concrete pads where you would suspect that maybe an oil tank, uh, once was, but certainly underground oil tanks typically are ones that are found outside. So if I suspected, uh, like on a home, maybe there was a house that comes to mind, it was a farmhouse and it was on 10 acres. And just, I can't remember exactly what it was in the basement, but there was a pipe coming out of the ground. And so when we sold that property to these buyers, I said, you know, we have to be mindful that there could be an underground oil tank care. Right. Um, given the age of the home and just whatever else we saw, um, there, so they had a home inspection, home inspector brought, uh, his little poker rod went down, felt, you know, into the ground and stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Okay. Yeah. Based
Jennifer Foley Realtor (02:22):
On his assessment, he didn't think that it, there was a concern there for anything like that. Um, but sometimes, yeah, you'll see pipes and different things that, uh, you know, may make you wonder if there is, but again, a lot of people have switched over to natural gas now. So other than in country, rural areas where it's probably more prominent for oil, heat, source of heat still, um, again, I think, you know, old farm houses, that kind of stuff would be more where I'm, I'm more sort of cautious on that or anything pre, uh, 1950s, 1960s, even maybe 1970s. I'm not really sure where the cutoff is on that.
Faeine Grant (03:02):
Yes. Yeah. That's so interesting because here it's the complete opposite. So basically in like the very dense, densely populated areas in like Vancouver and new us minster, for example, there's some really old historic homes that, um, you know, were built in sort of early 19 hundreds to 1950 type. And, um, and how it worked is that basically all of the homes that were so close together, um, rather than having the oil tank above ground, which was what they used on sort of more rural properties, they put it underground because there was less space. And so people had their backyards or front yards and cuz the houses were such CLO like so much closer together, they would put the, the, the oil storage tank underground. And that's where we were finding a lot of the buried oil toy oil, underground oil tanks. Holy moly. That, so, so a lot of the, yeah, so a lot of the homes, like at one point in time to, depending on where you're working too, right. I mean, if you're in an area that there's a lot of homes that potentially could have been built in and around the same time, um, quite are
Jennifer Foley Realtor (04:09):
These rural houses that you're talking about like townhouses,
Faeine Grant (04:12):
Single family detached. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Even, even my parents' place that was built in 1920, I believe. And um, and they had one at one point, so they had to remove it and it's like the actual removal of it. Isn't that big of a deal. But what, what the problem is is that if ever, um, there's leakage or if it wasn't emptied out properly, and then you get the contamination, that's where, um, it can be environment, the, you know, environmental
Jennifer Foley Realtor (04:40):
They're made a metal, right. So the, the oil tank is made a metal, so it does eventually rest and it becomes a huge expense. I know in the province of Ontario, they were mandated at some point that every underground oil tank be removed.
Faeine Grant (04:56):
Yep. That was found yes. That was found. Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer Foley Realtor (05:01):
Faeine Grant (05:02):
Does the fire, um, is it like through the fire, um, department that they keep record of that,
Jennifer Foley Realtor (05:08):
You know what, I would have to do some research on that cuz I don't remember cuz it's been such a long time since it's even been really an issue. Right. I mean, yeah.
Faeine Grant (05:20):
They are becoming more obsolete here as well to, and I'm finding that in certain areas that are sort of farther away from Vancouver, farther away from new west, all of the, the, you know, the, the popular areas where they had them. It's really difficult even to get them to come out and do an oil tank scan now because usually if you're doing a home inspection and you see something or it fits the profile or, you know, any of your, your triggers kind of go off on your radar, um, even to just get somebody to come out and do, um, like a, a soar scan, um, it's not
Jennifer Foley Realtor (05:53):
Metal, metal detector kinda thing, or
Faeine Grant (05:57):
Come do a little metal detector scanning all over and uh, and they'll be able to tell, okay, so if there's, it looks like there's something in the ground that's, you know, in a shape of a, you know, kind of rectangle, uh, there's a really good possibility. But, um, so I mean, at one point in time when I was working the new west market, it was like 50 bucks to do a scan super, super easy. Now you're looking at five, $600 just to do the scan depending on where you wanna to do it. Put
Jennifer Foley Realtor (06:22):
Let's put that in perspective though. Cause like, I don't know about today, but from what I remember, it was like $25,000, like 10 years ago just to get them removed. Right. So I mean, if, if a scan is $500 versus that, you know, larger, if your insurance company doesn't cover it, which I don't know, I don't think they would, but you never know. Right?
Faeine Grant (06:46):
Yeah. It's true. Yeah. It does put things into perspective and if there's any oil contamination to be able to have to remove all that and to get everything up to, to code for, you know, for the environmental standards. Yeah. It can be quite cost. So I know it is, it is worth it to do it for sure. If you're purchasing something that, um, again, typically pre 1960, even in the 1970s, you know, it's, uh, it, it really depends, but yeah, if you're purchasing something within that, that profile, you definitely need to make sure that you cover your grounds because when it comes time to sell, um, know definitely when you're, we're in a really busy market right now. So things sell very, very quickly. But if ever we're in a slower market and things do start to slow down, well, buyers are gonna get a lot pickier, so to speak and they'll want to, to really, you know, dot their eyes and cross their Ts and really dig into everything. So just something to think about
Jennifer Foley Realtor (07:35):
A hundred percent. All right. I'll hope every, uh, everybody you found that useful and helpful. If you guys have questions about please and us,
Faeine Grant (07:45):
Thanks so much. See you.
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